Matt's system part 2

ATC & other manufacturers system pictures
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Re: Matt's system part 2

Postby Muser » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:02 pm


Not without some insight, but not a bother to me.

Didn't answer my question, your prerogative and . . . enough for me.

ATC SCM20-2A, Pass Labs XP-12 preamp, Amazon Model 2 tt, Moerch DP6 arm and Dynavector XX2MkII cartridge, Oppo 105, Prism Sound Callia DAC, Kubala Sosna Expression cabling. Two 15" Acoustic Elegance subwoofers, powered by QSC RMX 2450 amplifier w/ minidsp equalization.

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Re: Matt's system part 2

Postby Shadorne » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:39 am

The AVM stuff looks like loctite 242.

Anyway FWIW as an engineer I see no valid reason to add mechanical damping to improve signal quality.

I would agree that adding clear silicone rubber gel on components to prevent vibration is a common and good practice when electronics is made from discrete components and for removable or replaceable chips as well as connectors. (Prevent things coming loose from vibration but no benefit to audible performance)

I don't think SMC components need that. I also suspect you need to use caution on components that need to dissipate heat - not good to paint or put gel on heat sink fins for example. Caps are ok to put gel on the top but not so as to cover the top entirely which prevent gas escaping and an orderly self destruction and result in component failing more catastrophically with explosion if/when eventually it dies.

Loctite is essential for ensuring no loose screws. And silicone Gluing of small caps together at the top can help add stability. Big components should have mechanical anchors with screws.

Anyway putting gunk on things to prevent vibration is a good idea and should improve reliability but technically it won't be expected to improve or reduce audio quality. Electrical circuits just won't care. The biggest noise is from thermal vibration - so keeping circuits cool will improve performance slightly. (Thermal is noise from heat and is broadband so nasty) - so a fan may help, good ventilation etc. Covering large areas of circuit boards and components with paint or some form of insulating material may actually prevent proper cooling and reduce performance by raising the noise floor. If you do paint things then Black is a good color to dissipate heat (best IR radiator) - most heat sinks are black anodized metal for this very reason.

One issue to consider is that with loctite you can secure a board to the chasis but also you can leave the screw loose enough so the board has freedom to move slightly. This may help. Tightening board screws excessively may result in the board warping under thermal cycles and cause early failures as solder connections get stressed.

Anyway all to say that it is not a simple YES/NO single answer as what to apply where when it comes to circuit boards and components.
"ATC. Always The Champion. I will not record without them. The best studio monitors. Period." ~ Lenny Kravitz

Benchmark DAC3, 2 x ATC SCM EL150ASL, 1 ATC SCM 0.1/15, 2 x Genelec 8020, Roland TD-30 Drums, Pearl Ref Acoustic Kit, Ludwig brass & Pearl Ref snares, Gibson LP Supreme, Fender Precision Bass

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Re: Matt's system part 2

Postby John Leddy » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:07 pm

darrenyeats wrote:
John Leddy wrote:If my opinions are a little too close to the mark for you so be it. Whether they're accurate or not is another matter altogether, but they are my opinions and just as valid as another's.

I like these words.

John, it's actually quite hard to understand where people are coming from on the internet, what is their background, their motivation and what life has thrown at them or, indeed, is throwing at them. I think the style of your recent posts has been on the robust end of the spectrum. If you spend any time here, I think you'll find them extremely robust compared to the norm for ATC forum. Of course allegations of over-sensitivity can be made ... I'm just saying how I rate these things.

Welcome BTW ...

Hi Darren and thanks for the welcome.

You should take my statements at face value. I'm not a shill and expect no reward for expressing my opinions. I'm not willing to discuss my background or life on an internet forum, beyond what I see as relevant to the particular topic under discussion. I waffle way too much as it is, don't encourage me further! My motivation is fuelled by those in positions of influence who, in my mind, contrary to their claimed intentions are in fact abusing the ignorance of others. While it's probably a good idea to accept I'm unlikely to escape ego anytime soon, you'd be correct in thinking I've no ambitions to godhead, so your stereo's safe with me.

My posts are meant to be robust, and thanks, that's an accurate way to describe their intended execution. Of course, I don't claim to be especially good at this type of thing, but do endeavour to provide a reasonable challenge to those I feel have bewitched the unwary. I would have thought professed truths could not only stand up to a little challenging, but would gain a strengthened position having rebuked oncomers. I know salesmen possessing such confidence in their convictions they absolutely relish chances to share their knowledge. Personally, I would advise caution where the exact opposite seems to occur.

I appreciate your feedback, and thank you for it. It is unlikely, don't you think, someone would be over-sensitive to my ramblings as, let's be honest, they're of no consequence whatsoever to life, the universe, and everything. In my experience, people of good standing tend to listen, listen some more, and then say, "Well no, it doesn't really work like that." Contrarily, when an unethical person displays an assumed authority I've found the wildest of absurdities are usually not far behind; just my experience.

Let's look at the facts. The high fidelity industry as we once knew it is dead. Over. Finished. You have companies manufacturing perfectly ordinary products on standard quality PCBs, using everyday cheap and nasty SMDs, but choosing to supply those products in machined billets of aluminium. The customer is simply buying a slab of alloy for which he has no actual requirement, and the machining of which has the highest of costs in the component.

That said, my position is businesses should be free to sell what they like, when they like, how they like, and any other like you care to think of. In my world nobody has a right to interfere with the business decisions of others. However, it appears to be clear in just about every other industry the public requires protection from those of questionable ethics. Surprise, surprise, the audio industry is no different to any other; that is, except for the lack of protection. All the while reviewers of dubious character propagate the biggest load of rubbish you can possibly think of.

Here's the catch. If we acknowledge the electronics have been sorted for quite some time now, relatively speaking, there's not much left to sell. Designers may have fun providing a NAP/Pre-amp into DAC/Active loudspeakers at the moment, but pretty soon that renderer will be included in a TV as a matter of course. As the number of traditional hi-fi purchasers has reduced due to the ascent of the portable market, rather than adapt to the new and expanding marketplace, magazines especially have chosen to exaggerate the importance of particular components to a shrinking number of enthusiasts.

Here's an example:
Have a look at the wires connecting the chassis-mount RCA phono sockets to this component's PCB. This perfectly ordinary cable, (choose standard 99.0% 2N, premium 99.5% 2N, or oxygen free 99.9% 3N grade copper as takes your fancy) will not degrade the performance of a £1,000 interconnect cable, but the same £1,000 interconnect possesses the capabilities of noticably improving the performance of this internal connection. Of course, there's no doubt a poorly constructed, deliberately or otherwise, interconnect cable can effect performance; I wouldn't dispute that.

If we should all be trying to recreate that live sound, why isn't the industry selling us the cables I see being used on stage?

All the best,


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Re: Matt's system part 2

Postby tw99 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:24 pm

I'm very much enjoying your rather robust position on this stuff, it's fun to read.

Personally I don't have any objection to people buying expensive lunatic-fringe products if they want to, it's all good and keeps the economy moving. My only objection is when they claim that these products somehow defy the known laws of physics and the known facts about the human perception and memory of sound...
NACD3.5 | SBT / DSpeaker anti-mode 2.0 / SIA2-150 / SCM40 + C1

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Re: Matt's system part 2

Postby MattSPL » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:26 am

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that. I used to get involved in Serious cable debates where people hiding behind keyboards hurled abuse because there was no scientific proof. I'm done with that.

Have you all heard of Nikola Tesla? One of the most important and intelligent people ever to live.
Here's a quote of his
“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.”
― Nikola Tesla

Sony BDP-S790 > Matrix Quattro Dac > Digidesign RM2's with SB Acoustics drivers > DIY Dayton Audio UM18-22 Sub

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Re: Matt's system part 2

Postby darrenyeats » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:11 pm

tw99 wrote:I'm very much enjoying your rather robust position on this stuff, it's fun to read.

The way I meant it anyway, position is one thing and posting style another. It's just as easy to write a robust foo-loving post.

MattSPL wrote:Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that.

Or in my case ...

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Re: Matt's system part 2

Postby MattSPL » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:28 pm

Sony BDP-S790 > Matrix Quattro Dac > Digidesign RM2's with SB Acoustics drivers > DIY Dayton Audio UM18-22 Sub


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