ATC PA-65

ATC & other makes of Hi-Fi equipment
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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby Alexk » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:24 pm

Zulef wrote:I think these are in room measurements. Many speakers have bass bumps, true, however I would expect 100s to go a bit lower.

http://www.focal.com/en/electra-1000-be ... 95098.html
Look at Focals chart. Scroll down and click on Stereoplay review. There is also a good chart on distortion (Klirr in German). Atc bass distortion is not quite ...


That is not a typical room. I've never seen a room with bass anywhere near that linear. Most rooms would give you far more bass extension than that from 'room gain'. My SCM 20 ASLs give me deeper bass extension than that in my room which is supporting the bottom end quite a bit (I have measurements to show it).

SCM100s always go pretty deep to my ears. Sure a sub would get you deeper, but most subs use EQ to boost their low frequency performance, which has side-effects. Most speakers (the Focals included) use different port alignments to boost their low frequency performance which also has side-effects.

If you want really tight, and low-distortion bass which extends down in frequency with very little roll-off, you either need huge enclosures with huge drivers, or a compromise in the distortion or time domain (sometimes both). ATC go for the first option...

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby Zulef » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:50 pm

I was wondering why bass is not more generous higher up the chain. I know that for me using any Atcs without a sub is not an option. I think many of you use subs no matter how big your speakers are. It just sounds so much better.

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby MevDinc » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:45 pm

Of course, I agree with this statement provided that you have a very good sub and it's setup correctly.
Subs do indeed add much more than just more bass, they help with the overall sound stage, size and depth too.
I would say that even Magico Q7s or ATC 300s would benefit from a well setup JL AUDIO GOTHAM SUBWOOFER AND CR-1 CROSSOVER!
I am sure Rick@Musicraft would agree! :D
Audirvana+3.0 - Mac Mini, Lindermann Musicbook 20 DSD, ATC EL 150ASL (with the ATC tweeter!)

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby studioman » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:41 pm

I have an SPL Phonitor 2 feeding ATC Active speakers.

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/373658100312393678/

Image

I talked to SPL about the Phonitor 2 expansion rack, which is a rack mount frame and a passive switch, with 4 sets of properly balanced XLR inputs on the back and one pair of output XLRs.
The expansion pack is really to give multiple outputs for either active speakers, power amps, or balanced headphones. I don't need that at present.
What I do need is more inputs than the Phonitor 2 gives (2 sets of balanced inputs & 1 set of RCA inputs.)
SPL told me that with some gender changing adaptors, the Expansion pack could be used as switchable inputs. Fantastic! So now I have 5 sets of balanced inputs PLUS the Phono/RCA inputs available to me.

Also, I wanted the Phonitor 2 to feed my LARGE ATC Active speakers, which really need a low impedance output from the connected preamp. (The ATC preamps are 10ohm output impedance but new are over £5000.)
SPL told me that the output impedance of the Phonitor 2 is 75ohms. That is FAR better matching than any of my other pre-amps (including my Audio Research Reference 2 which is 600ohms using XLR or 300ohms using Phono) This feature alone makes the Phonitor 2 a great match for ATC active speakers. It is HUGELY dynamic, very smooth and detailed, and has neutral, accurate, sound which sounds tuneful and TONEful because it is SO CLEAR that the musicians' performances really shine through.

There are also DIP switches on the base of the unit to change a few things.
You can:
1. Increase all outputs by 12dB
2. Increase all outputs by 22dB
3. Change the sensitivity of the RCA input by 10dB
4. Insert Loop (if you want the unit to be a headphone preamp only, and allow the signal to pass through to the amp outputs WITHOUT being affected by any front panel setting)
5. Activate the Phonitor Matrix settings for the MAIN outputs (really only designed for headphone use) so that these front panel matrix switches and controls ALSO affect the XLR inputs on the rear.

So what is missing?

The ONLY 2 things that MAYBE could have been incorporated are:
1. A SECOND headphone output.
and
2. I have an SPL Control2, which is similar in some ways to the Phonitor 2 but nowhere near as classy, as accurate (the specs are ALL much lower), but it DOES have another simultaneous output XLRs for a subwoofer (mono OR stereo). I REALLY could do with that. Anyone have any ideas on how to accomplish that?
They say if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there. Now somehow I have reached 63...oh shit, it's 64 now....How and when did THAT happen?....there's a lesson there somewhere if only I could figure it out...

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby studioman » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:07 pm

I have been searching for info on the PA65s and found a variety of pieces....

News 1:
ATC used the recent AES Show to introduce the PA65, a new compact, three-way active PA speaker system for flown, live sound installation. The PA65 live sound speaker system was initially developed from the company’s popular SCM150ASL active studio monitors and have been installed in such high-end London nightclubs as Chinawhite and MO*VIDA.

The three-way active PA65 system comprises an ATC Super Linear 15-inch bass driver, a three-inch softdrome mid-range driver and a 1.25-inch fabric dome tweeter. ATC three-channel Class A/B amplifiers deliver 200 watts to the low-frequency driver, 100 watts to the mid-range and 50 watts to the tweeter. All amplifier channels feature active momentary gain reduction.

Each three-way active enclosure is capable of generating a maximum SPL of 116dB. Each cabinet offers ±80 degrees of horizontal, coherent dispersion with ±10 degrees in the vertical plane. Crossover frequencies are set at 380Hz and 3.5kHz. The PA65s come with flying hardware.

Noted ATC director Bob Polley, “With the live sound market’s growing interest in high-end audio products to significantly improve the sound quality of clubs and a variety of live sound venues, we have decided to modify our prestigious 150s and offer the PA65s for live sound applications. The reaction is stunning. It’s definitely the future for live sound.”

ATC hand builds the most accurate professional reference loudspeakers in the world. All drive units are powered by individual amplifiers optimised for the driver’s bandwidth, delivering balanced maximum sound pressure levels, substantial transient headroom with improved driver protection and precision control over speaker diaphragm travel. Even order filtered active crossovers are individually aligned at the factory and phase corrected for superb stereo imaging.

ATC’s drivers are manufactured in-house to exacting tolerances and are legendary for their many design innovations, such as the unique SL magnet system and the company’s renowned softdome mid-range driver, which achieves exceptionally broad and even dispersion to produce a flat response anywhere in the room.
http://ziogiorgio.com/2005/10/31/atc-in ... dspeakers/
Last edited by studioman on Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
They say if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there. Now somehow I have reached 63...oh shit, it's 64 now....How and when did THAT happen?....there's a lesson there somewhere if only I could figure it out...

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby studioman » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:08 pm

News 2:
1 November 2005
ATC introduces live sound loudspeakers
UK - ATC used the recent AES exhibition in New York to introduce the PA65, a compact, three-way active PA speaker system for flown, live sound installation. The system was developed from the company's established SCM150ASL active studio monitors that have been installed in London nightclubs Chinawhite and MO*VIDA.
The three-way active PA65 system comprises an ATC Super Linear 15-inch bass driver, a three-inch softdrome mid-range driver and a 1.25-inch fabric dome tweeter. ATC three-channel Class A/B amplifiers deliver 200 watts to the low-frequency driver, 100 watts to the mid-range and 50 watts to the tweeter. All amplifier channels feature active momentary gain reduction.
Each three-way active enclosure is capable of generating a maximum SPL of 116dB. Each cabinet offers ±80 degrees of horizontal, coherent dispersion with ±10 degrees in the vertical plane. Crossover frequencies are set at 380Hz and 3.5kHz. The PA65s come with flying hardware.
ATC director Bob Polley comments, "With the live sound market's growing interest in high-end audio products to significantly improve the sound quality of clubs and a variety of live sound venues, we have decided to modify our prestigious 150s and offer the PA65s for live sound applications. The reaction is stunning. It's definitely the future for live sound."
(Jim Evans)
Last edited by studioman on Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
They say if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there. Now somehow I have reached 63...oh shit, it's 64 now....How and when did THAT happen?....there's a lesson there somewhere if only I could figure it out...

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby studioman » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:14 pm

News 3: MIXLINE_LIVE
ATC PA65

ATC (Acoustic Transducer Company) Loudspeakers recently debuted the ATC PA65 ($7,500), a new compact, three-way active P.A. speaker system for flown live sound installation. The PA65 was based on designs from the company’s SCM150ASL active studio monitors.
The three-way active PA65 system comprises an ATC Super Linear 15-inch bass driver, a three-inch soft-dome midrange driver and a 1.25-inch fabric-dome tweeter. ATC 3-channel Class-A/B amplifiers deliver 200 watts to the low-frequency driver, 100W to the mid-range and 50W to the tweeter. All amplifier channels feature active momentary gain reduction.
Each three-way active enclosure is capable of generating a maximum SPL of 116 dB. Each cabinet offers 80 degrees of horizontal coherent dispersion with 10 degrees in the vertical plane. Crossover frequencies are set at 380 Hz and 3.5k Hz. The PA65s come with flying hardware.
ATC hand-builds its loudspeakers. All drive units are powered by individual amplifiers that are optimized for the driver's bandwidth, delivering balanced maximum SPLs, transient headroom with improved driver protection and precision control over speaker diaphragm travel.
For more information, visit the company’s Website at www.atc.gb.net. For more new sound reinforcement product announcements, visit mixonline.com/livesound/products.
- See more at: http://www.mixonline.com/news/mixlineli ... 0NK5f.dpuf
They say if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there. Now somehow I have reached 63...oh shit, it's 64 now....How and when did THAT happen?....there's a lesson there somewhere if only I could figure it out...

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby EarlYoung » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:12 am

studioman wrote:I have an SPL Phonitor 2 feeding ATC Active speakers.

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/373658100312393678/

Image

I talked to SPL about the Phonitor 2 expansion rack, which is a rack mount frame and a passive switch, with 4 sets of properly balanced XLR inputs on the back and one pair of output XLRs.
The expansion pack is really to give multiple outputs for either active speakers, power amps, or balanced headphones. I don't need that at present.
What I do need is more inputs than the Phonitor 2 gives (2 sets of balanced inputs & 1 set of RCA inputs.)
SPL told me that with some gender changing adaptors, the Expansion pack could be used as switchable inputs. Fantastic! So now I have 5 sets of balanced inputs PLUS the Phono/RCA inputs available to me.

Also, I wanted the Phonitor 2 to feed my LARGE ATC Active speakers, which really need a low impedance output from the connected preamp. (The ATC preamps are 10ohm output impedance but new are over £5000.)
SPL told me that the output impedance of the Phonitor 2 is 75ohms. That is FAR better matching than any of my other pre-amps (including my Audio Research Reference 2 which is 600ohms using XLR or 300ohms using Phono) This feature alone makes the Phonitor 2 a great match for ATC active speakers. It is HUGELY dynamic, very smooth and detailed, and has neutral, accurate, sound which sounds tuneful and TONEful because it is SO CLEAR that the musicians' performances really shine through.

There are also DIP switches on the base of the unit to change a few things.
You can:
1. Increase all outputs by 12dB
2. Increase all outputs by 22dB
3. Change the sensitivity of the RCA input by 10dB
4. Insert Loop (if you want the unit to be a headphone preamp only, and allow the signal to pass through to the amp outputs WITHOUT being affected by any front panel setting)
5. Activate the Phonitor Matrix settings for the MAIN outputs (really only designed for headphone use) so that these front panel matrix switches and controls ALSO affect the XLR inputs on the rear.

So what is missing?

The ONLY 2 things that MAYBE could have been incorporated are:
1. A SECOND headphone output.
and
2. I have an SPL Control2, which is similar in some ways to the Phonitor 2 but nowhere near as classy, as accurate (the specs are ALL much lower), but it DOES have another simultaneous output XLRs for a subwoofer (mono OR stereo). I REALLY could do with that. Anyone have any ideas on how to accomplish that?



Thanks for the heads up. I have been using a CA2 with Active 50's for many years & have been looking for a different pre-amp. Perhaps this SPL would do the trick. So it's just plug & play with no matching issues ?

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby studioman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:48 pm

SPL Heaphone amp/Preamps are GIANT KILLERS!
For years I have been using a KRELL KPS20iL as my CD source, through various balanced DACs. So there is a TON of detail, dynamic range and frequency range I do not wish to lose through inappropriate preamp matching.
I had originally been looking for an SCA2 to control my ATC actives, because my previous pre, an Audio Research Reference 2, wasn't quite 'fitting the bill.' but none came up at a reasonable price, so I decided to try something else. I'm glad I did.
I know from ATC that their SCA2 has 10ohms output impedance, so a low output impedance preamp was what I needed to look for.
My Audio Research Reference 2 is 600 ohms. That's where the difference lies. My Audio Research, fabulous as it is with most power amps, I thought might not be optimum for the ATC Amp Pack, which demands a very low output impedance to feed them.
So I tried a unit that I had , which was the SPL 2Control. This is an SPL headphone amp and preamp combined. The 2Control's output impedance is 75ohms, the frequency range is 10Hz to 200kHz (-3dB), signal to noise ratio was 116dB, dynamic range 116dB. German audio engineering. Fabulous. It was the best unit I could get (worth under £500) for the job. The German Stereo magazine rated it as 'Excellent 100%' amazingly, streets ahead of the competition. And it sounds good fronting my ATCs.

Image

Image

Although the SPL 2Control was very successful for me, when the Phonitor 2 came out and I read the specs and reviews, and I emailed SPL to find out what the Phonitor 2's output impedance was, and they told me 75ohms. I had to try one. I was not disappointed.
Take Note though: The Phonitor 1 is a very different unit to the version 2. For preamp use, always go for the Phonitor 2.

Image

Image

The version2 was designed to be used as a preamp as well as being a headphone amp, PLUS all the specs are massively better. It has 3 sets of switchable inputs, 2 are balanced, one is Phono.
The silence from this system is blacker than black, if you know what I mean.
The signal to noise ratio is amazing at 116dB.
Also the SPL dynamic range is HUGE at 150dB.
Frequency range is 4Hz to 480kHz. Yes, I wrote that correctly.... 4Hz, not 40Hz, to 480kHz, not 48kHz !!!!!

The Phonitor also has DIP switches underneath to determine certain capabilities, and the meters (SO quaint) are adjustable for sensitivity.

I have set my ATCs to least sensitivity (through the hole on the back of the Amp Pack) and used a pair of XLR attenuators (-20dB) on the inputs of the Amp Packs.

But I am someone who always tries to get the last ounce of performance out of whatever I am working on at the time. So....

I contacted 'Stefan Audio Art' to see what mods they would recommend for the Phonitor 2, and this was their reply:

"Hello *****,
Thank you for your email and question.
We have external Mod packages which consist of our Endorphin Headphone Cables and a Mapleshade vibrations control platforms.
We do not offer internal modification for the Phonitor 2 as we feel with the above external modifications the Phontior 2 performs exceptionally well in the under $5000.00 price range.
If you are interested in our external mod packages please send us your budget requirements and we will send you the corresponding configuration(s).
Kind regards, SAA Team"


So they reckon that there's not much to improve on the Phonitor 2 other than external cables when using headphones, and putting it on an anti-vibration system.

I have actually whipped off the lid and applied self adhesive anti-resonance pads to all open steel surfaces, and I will put some better feet under it I think, in time.

I HIGHLY recommend this unit, which is rapidly gaining a fabulous reputation. Check out reviews on the internet. I haven't found a bad one yet.

MY SPL 2Control is, I guess, will now up for grabs, and my Audio Research Reference 2 will be as well, if anyone shows any interest!
Last edited by studioman on Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
They say if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there. Now somehow I have reached 63...oh shit, it's 64 now....How and when did THAT happen?....there's a lesson there somewhere if only I could figure it out...

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby fowler » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:00 pm

Sounds like a awesome bit of kit, is it a clear jump up from the 2control?
Atc scm20 pro mk2 chord Qbd76 kk dxd808 audiolab 8200ap audiolab 8200p oppo bdp-93eu mk ss150

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby studioman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:44 pm

I am sure that the ATC CA2 would be a better bet than the SPL as regards matching the ATC speakers, but it only has balanced outputs, NOT balanced inputs which I was after. The SCA2 WOULD be my first choice, but it is beyond my reach at its new cost, and as a used item they vary wildly in cost, and I've just been unlucky so far. Maybe soon. Until then, all the specs point to the SPL Phonitor 2 being better than the 2Control. And I do think it is noticeable, but it's not a night and day difference between the two. The Phonitor 2 DOES feel 100% professional though, compared to the 2Control, which is somewhat utilitarian. They are both a good match for my ATCs and both definitely have a clean, wide open tonality, deep and high sound with their amazing frequency range. You just don't get these specs with most hifi preamps unless you pay a lot of money for high end equipment. In BOTH cases, my ATC speakers sound best when the SPL units are on 40% volume or higher, which is why I use attenuators on the inputs to the ATC amp packs..
Last edited by studioman on Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
They say if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there. Now somehow I have reached 63...oh shit, it's 64 now....How and when did THAT happen?....there's a lesson there somewhere if only I could figure it out...

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby Alexk » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:51 am

I would strongly suggest you guys look at the Sound Skulptor MC624 as well. Not as pretty as the SPL, but it's a stepped-ladder attenuator type design which is considered by many to be the best way to adjust the level. Four sets of outputs, six sets of inputs (four switchable between balanced and unbalanced, two unbalanced phono inputs, and an unbalanced TRS input on the front), remote controllable, level offset on every input and output etc... you get the idea...

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby EarlYoung » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:37 am

Alexk wrote:I would strongly suggest you guys look at the Sound Skulptor MC624 as well. Not as pretty as the SPL, but it's a stepped-ladder attenuator type design which is considered by many to be the best way to adjust the level. Four sets of outputs, six sets of inputs (four switchable between balanced and unbalanced, two unbalanced phono inputs, and an unbalanced TRS input on the front), remote controllable, level offset on every input and output etc... you get the idea...


Interesting, especially as you obviously know what you're talking about. Could you say something about how it compares to other pre-amps. you have heard with ATC's. Who sells it in the UK ?

Thanks.

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby fowler » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:59 am

Alexk wrote:I would strongly suggest you guys look at the Sound Skulptor MC624 as well. Not as pretty as the SPL, but it's a stepped-ladder attenuator type design which is considered by many to be the best way to adjust the level. Four sets of outputs, six sets of inputs (four switchable between balanced and unbalanced, two unbalanced phono inputs, and an unbalanced TRS input on the front), remote controllable, level offset on every input and output etc... you get the idea...


Sounds interesting, how much is it and is there any reviews on line? Have you compared it to ATC sca or the phonitor 2?
Atc scm20 pro mk2 chord Qbd76 kk dxd808 audiolab 8200ap audiolab 8200p oppo bdp-93eu mk ss150

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Re: ATC PA-65

Postby Alexk » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:59 am

I haven't done a direct comparison, but I can't tell if it's in the signal chain or not, and the distortion levels are way lower than those from my converters, so I can't measure any difference with it in or out of circuit.

The signal path is incredibly straightforward (although it's quite a complicated unit because of the nature of a stepped resister-network attenuator).

You can only order them direct, either as a DIY kit or fully constructed and ready to go.

I use mine with my SCM 20 mk2 actives for studio monitoring.

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