Scm19A or scm40A

ATC & other makes of Hi-Fi equipment
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Scm19A or scm40A

Postby Andywill » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Hi at the moment my system is Atc scm 11 mk2 with Arcam A39 amplifier and a Roksan Caspian m series CD player took me a few mistakes finding the right speakers as I hate boomy uncontrolled bass I really get a lot of enjoyment from my system now the Atcs are fantastic I've been saving hard and by the summer time would have enough to go active using the scm 19As with a suitable pre amp my room size is 16ft x 12ft the system being at the 16ft end the room is heavily furnished thick carpets heavy curtains and a large full width sofa on the back wall the speakers have around 2ft of space from the back and side walls with nothing in front to the seating position if I wait and save a bit longer I would be able to buy the 40As would these be overkill for my room size worried about bass becoming uncontrolled is it worth the extra wait for the 40As this will be a big investment for me so won't to get it right thanks Andy.

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby linger63 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:00 am

Not really sure which of the ATC models mentioned would best suit your room and sonic requirements but recommend moving your couch out from the back wall which will improve your listening pleasure regardless :D

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby Andywill » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:16 am

Hi Larry thanks for the info can't seem to find were to return your message so will reply here will take on board what you have said. As regards a preamp I was looking at Naim will have around £4000 budget for a good pre amp I will more than likely be going to purchase from Rick at musicraft who I am sure will give me some good advice. As regards my sofa it cannot be moved so stuck with that. At the moment with my set up the system sounds excellent but would like to improve on the sound I am getting I want to make sure I get it right as it is a big decision on my investment. Thanks.

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby Brad Lunde » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:54 am

Andywill wrote:Hi Larry thanks for the info can't seem to find were to return your message so will reply here will take on board what you have said. As regards a preamp I was looking at Naim will have around £4000 budget for a good pre amp I will more than likely be going to purchase from Rick at musicraft who I am sure will give me some good advice. As regards my sofa it cannot be moved so stuck with that. At the moment with my set up the system sounds excellent but would like to improve on the sound I am getting I want to make sure I get it right as it is a big decision on my investment. Thanks.


Hey Andy
Not trying to rain on your parade but it will be difficult to "get it right" with your couch against the wall. A good parallel: I visit studios for a living. In the control rooms, where decisions are made, the WORST place is always the back wall where there is 99 out of 100 times tremendous bass build up. Sit against the wall and hear too much bass, so engineers stick the talent back there sometimes and they think there is way more low end in the mix than there is, which the talent usually like and the engineer doesn't.

So if the person against the back wall is judging things, choosing the speakers, he'll pick speakers with too little low end as the room is making the bass too loud at the back wall. Sit even a few feet in front that wall and things are very different. In smaller rooms its even more difficult as the space is so small everything happens in miniature- a few inches this way or that and wow what a difference. Its also so small the bass can never develop properly so its boomy in spot and zero bass in another. So room treatment is the only possible way to help yourself. Bass traps, absorption on that back wall and play around with seating and see if you can move forward even a little bit.

Learn how things sound in the room- it surprising what you will find playing around with speaker placement and seating position-experimenting, speakers here or there or there, try a hundred different positions! A few inches can be sonically very different. Then after finding the best place for the speakers, repeat with listening position. A hundred different spots, a few inches at a time. Trial and error, over and over, learn the room to the point where you know how it will sound THERE or THERE. With such an effort you sometimes stumble across a position in listening that sounds amazing-or a position in speaker placement makes things way better. Maybe you have to move a folding chair to that spot when you want to listen, you cannot put furniture there, but so what! It sounds great! At least you know!

Brad
Brad Lunde
Lone Mountain Audio, part of TransAudio Group
ATC Importers USA

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby Andywill » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:20 am

Hi brad thanks for the reply unfortunately I can't do anything with the sofa its a massive corner suite all in one piece. That's probably been why I had problems with ported speakers being terrible for boom. Ill tell you how I started on the stereo system in my home I first had a decent home cinema system miller and kresiel 850 series speakers (no ports) with twin svs sb 2000 subwoofers sealed again with a high current harman kardon 8500 flagship receiver the sound was fantastic with no bass boom music was very good also you could play at high spl with no problems at all after a while I became more I interested in listing to music so sold my cinema system brought a quality sound base for movie watching that's when the problems began I tried quite a few ported types but as I was used to good tight bass and none of the stereo speakers sounded as good as my old cinema system started regretting selling it anyway decided to try Atc as I knew these where sealed design well what a revelation I suffer no bass boom whatsoever the system is now smooth tight and very dynamic great I had found a speaker that I liked now I would like to go to the next level as really enjoying listening to music again ive owned the Atcs 18 months so have had quite some time with them but I am worried the dreaded boom will return I can't explain how much I hate uncontrolled bass sorry for the long post.

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby Andywill » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:20 am

Hi brad thanks for the reply unfortunately I can't do anything with the sofa its a massive corner suite all in one piece. That's probably been why I had problems with ported speakers being terrible for boom. Ill tell you how I started on the stereo system in my home I first had a decent home cinema system miller and kresiel 850 series speakers (no ports) with twin svs sb 2000 subwoofers sealed again with a high current harman kardon 8500 flagship receiver the sound was fantastic with no bass boom music was very good also you could play at high spl with no problems at all after a while I became more I interested in listing to music so sold my cinema system brought a quality sound base for movie watching that's when the problems began I tried quite a few ported types but as I was used to good tight bass and none of the stereo speakers sounded as good as my old cinema system started regretting selling it anyway decided to try Atc as I knew these where sealed design well what a revelation I suffer no bass boom whatsoever the system is now smooth tight and very dynamic great I had found a speaker that I liked now I would like to go to the next level as really enjoying listening to music again ive owned the Atcs 18 months so have had quite some time with them but I am worried the dreaded boom will return I can't explain how much I hate uncontrolled bass sorry for the long post. Thanks Andy.

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby MattSPL » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:05 pm

Hi Andy,

I have used ATC scm19’s, scm50asl’s and PA65’s in my room. None of them caused bass boom, but I did prefer the bass character of the sealed enclosure’s of the 19’s and 65’s, although the difference between the ported 50’s was very subtle and certainly not boomy.
I’ve thought about going with the new curved Active 40’s myself as they look great too, but I won’t be able to accommodate floor standers with my plans for my living room.

Cheers
Matt
Sony BDP-S790 > Matrix Quattro Dac > Digidesign RM2's with SB Acoustics drivers > DIY Dayton Audio UM18-22 Sub

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby Andywill » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:23 pm

Hi Matt I am just worried ill spend a lot of money and end up with a sound I don't like most people have to compromise with there rooms especially when its your lounge if having the sofa on the back wall means I won't be able to upgrade I may well have to stick with the system I've got I have no problems with the sound now perhaps I should keep the scm11s and upgrade the amplification instead.

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby MattSPL » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:56 pm

Hi Andy,

A home demo would be the best idea if possible. I’m not familiar with your Arcam, although I did have an Arcam integrated amp about 15 years ago, an A21 I think it was.
When I had the scm19’s I used a Krell Kav300i then upgraded to a Chapter Audio pre/power and to be honest, once you’ve adequate power for your scm11’s, an amp upgrade might not be as big an upgrade you’d hoped for. A speaker upgrade, particularly to actives, will be a far greater upgrade. I honestly don’t think you’ll have too much bass with the 40’s. My sofa is against the back wall too and I don’t find it as much of an issue as the room mode bass issues, which I now EQ out.

Cheers
Matt
Sony BDP-S790 > Matrix Quattro Dac > Digidesign RM2's with SB Acoustics drivers > DIY Dayton Audio UM18-22 Sub

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby Andywill » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:46 pm

Hi Matt I did think the issue was that my room wasn't suitable for ported speakers before I had two 500 watt 12'' sealed subwoofers I could play this system to insane volumes and it would always stay composed and I know the m&ks are not the best with music but it was nonetheless still an enjoyable experience that's what lead me down the path of putting together a decent stereo set up as it stands now if I can't get a home demo I am going to have to take a risk. With having no bass issues whatsoever with the Atc scm 11s I supposed it would be a similar case with the larger active versions I have seen set ups on the internet with the larger active models in much smaller cluttered rooms than mine with the owners saying there systems sound fantastic bit of a conundrum.

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby MattSPL » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:48 pm

Hi Andy,

The only time I’ve had real issues are when I had a pair of ported B&W’s. I think the problem may be that the port resonance ends up landing around a typical European living room mode. I always have bass trouble around 40-50hz and this is possibly around port tune in a lot of smaller speakers sized to fit our rooms.

I have less trouble with transmission line speakers and even less with sealed speakers.
I also use a sealed sub and have done for years with various setups.

Cheers
Matt
Sony BDP-S790 > Matrix Quattro Dac > Digidesign RM2's with SB Acoustics drivers > DIY Dayton Audio UM18-22 Sub

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby linger63 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:00 am

Andywill wrote:Hi Matt I am just worried ill spend a lot of money and end up with a sound I don't like most people have to compromise with there rooms especially when its your lounge if having the sofa on the back wall means I won't be able to upgrade I may well have to stick with the system I've got I have no problems with the sound now perhaps I should keep the scm11s and upgrade the amplification instead.


Andy,

Why let something as easily changed as a sofa dictate your system and level of listening pleasure?

Change it out for something more suitable.

Seems an easy affordable solution considering your speaker budget. ;)

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby Andywill » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:52 am

Hi happy New year to everyone the living room dictates where the sofa can go where the fireplace is all my seating has to go against the back wall if I can I will try to get a pair for a home demo as I will be spending around £9000, with the Atcs I have now the sound is great if I can go active and still have a smooth dynamic sound from the bigger speakers ill be very happy without a home demo its going to be difficult to judge. Do you think if I could get hold of some passive 19s which would probably be easier to source and tried these with my Arcam A39 it is 120 watts per channel amp so should have no trouble driving them then if I don't get any problems would it be safe to assume the active 19s would be the same.

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby MevDinc » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:18 am

Happy New Year to everyone!

Trying the passive 19s with your Arcam amp would be OK to see if you experience any problems.
If you're happy with the sound of this combo then I can tell you that you'd be even happier with the active 19s!
Audirvana+3.0 - Mac Mini, Lindermann Musicbook 20 DSD, ATC EL 150ASL (with the ATC tweeter!)

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Re: Scm19A or scm40A

Postby stringer » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:26 pm

Hi Andy,

you are correct the only way for you to figure out the way to go is to home audition

I am currently owning some atc scm 19 fronted by a naim supernait2 and am also contemplating going active with 19a or 40a. I was initially leaning towards the 19a, since I already know that the 19 passive are working in my room. I had on saturday the opportunity to audition the 40 actives at a dealer. The music was just flowing naturally and the produced sound was nothing short of astonishing. But there is a big but. The dealer used for the demo , the chord DAVE, the big brother of my chord hugo. Also the speakers were setup-ed quite differently from a typical home setup : 3m were separating each speaker

With that kind of demo, i have no way of saying if the 40a would perform in my room, or how much better the 40a are than my current 19s passive + supernait2.
They were fronted by a much better dac and were playing in a very different room.

I think they are much better , I also feel the 19a are lot better , but will have to home audition to get some certainty here.

I have a question for people familiar with active atc.
My gut feeling tells me that passive 2 way operation is less a sonic compromise than 3 way passive operation.so that the passive 19s one could get very close to the 19a with a great amplifier. Am I correct ? If i was starting from scratch, it would be a no brainer. But I'm not.


Thanks
dCS Network Bridge/Naim DC1/Chord Hugo/AR Sound Lunar RCA-DIN/Naim NAC 32.5/SC-DR /ATC scm19a/

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